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INTERVIEW: Def Jam Rapstar set to ignite the gaming Hip Hop scene
With Def Jam Rapstar set to release later this year, we sit down with 4mm Games' Chief Creative Officer to get the word on the street, his views on competitors and what the future holds for gaming
Written by Alex Seedhouse, 31 August 2010
GamerZines: Def Jam Rapstar seems set to fill a particular gap in the music genre that's been missing for some time now. Do you feel this is true?
Jamie King, Chief Creative Officer at 4mm Games: That's the beautiful thing and the industry, certainly the publishing side, I guess thought that Hip Hop was quite niche. Our attitude was always been that if you look at engagement with music, Hip Hop is everywhere. I think that is evident by, let's say the non-core Hip Hop demographic that we're appealing to, who come in and say "I don't really listen to Hip Hop that much" or "I like Kanye, but I don't know this song" but we get them in the room and they start inching forwards. When they get hold of the mic, they realise that it's actually more familiar than they realise. The way we've set it up is that it's very easy to engage with, certainly on Easy mode. You put it on Hard and it then tests their skill, but it's a lot of fun along with the incredible nature of Hip Hop and the content of the lyrics. It's really cool stuff.
GZ: What was the inspiration for deciding to pursue developing such a title?
JK: There are a number of studies, not that we operate from them, and it was clear that the Xbox 360 audience, in particular males, wanted a Hip Hop music based game. It became more about "well here's an authentic Hip Hop offering so it can stand up alongside the other music based games who have either completely ignored Hip Hop or literally only touched on it."
We've got the body of work that's worthy of presenting it on its own, but we're also looking at Hip Hop and the way that the young generation engage with it through self promotion. There's a large audience in America on YouTube that are filming themselves through their laptops and rapping along to tracks, the performance to the camera and not giving you an Avatar but you being the star is really going to grow in importance.
GZ: In terms of competitors neither SingStar or Lips seem to have really delved into promoting the Hip Hop genre, which seems a little strange?
JK: No, and that was another thing. I love Beck as an artist, and the Spice Girls are very cool. That's not Hip Hop. I think also, looking at the interface for that and also looking at other games, there didn't seem to be much cohesion between the art direction and the setting. Definitely none of it was, for us, speaking to the demographic in North America, where you go into a Gamestop and look at the kids there, looking down the list of artists and it just isn't talking to them. I mean SingStar has had tremendous success in Europe and not quite the same in America, but I think they have a very polished interface but something wasn't connecting.
In America, Hip Hop became Pop a long time ago. I don't mean that to be in any way derogatory to Hip Hop, but it became like a global music scene and it keeps evolving and reinventing itself. That was equally important, especially with the whole aesthetic. One of the greatest influences to me was Hype Williams. I used to make music videos a long time ago, and he came along with his Kino Flo lighting and his Fisheye lens and totally changed that aesthetic.
I wanted us to reflect the high-end aesthetic that Hip Hop now represents. The idea that you look at Kanye, Jay-Z or Fifty-Cent; the guys who are at the top of their game. They are CEO's of their own companies. They fly around in private jets, there is a very sexy, glamorous component now and I really wanted to touch on that combined with the fact it's not a 2D screen. Because we weren't giving you an Avatar and stages, the challenge was how are we going to make you feel like you've stepped into a world? How do we make you feel like you are on a bit of a journey? It's not level based, so you don't necessarily see yourself rising up to become this Def Jam Rapstar. That's why we wanted to make this ethereal sort of city that we call the Def Jam Empire, so that we can then go and do mini-games that could be based upon it. For us this is the first franchise of several that we are going to do with Def Jam. Def Jam can be representative of a very important voice within videogames, and can be reflective of a younger generation that is starting to become part of publishers and developer teams - it's a whole new landscape.
GZ: Having worked alongside Def Jam, have they been supportive of the work that you've been doing on the title?
JK: It's been a very collaborative relationship. The F word has been said a lot and controllers have been thrown around, but we obviously have tremendous mutual respect. Technically I have sign off on the game, and they have sign off on all the marketing. Obviously I defer to them, and we all worked together as to deciding what the first 45 tracks will be.
My job is to ensure that the gameplay is solid, and I just have to worry about the gamer being happy. Everyone at Def Jam just has to consider our core gamer, which is the Hip Hop audience, and that the sensibility, touch and tone is just right. We wouldn't have done this without Def Jam, at 4mm we really know how to make games and ensure that we bring everything that we've learnt from previous companies we've worked for so that we really give a polished gaming experience.
GZ: Following launch, I would imagine that you will be releasing DLC periodically for the title. What are your plans for this?
JK: We'll have DLC and we do absolutely want to have packs, which will be centred around individual artists that have the body of work and 'Back in the day' or certain particular themes. I think that certainly on the DLC side consumers are very sophisticated, and parents are a lot more aware about videogames these days and the age ratings that classify them. I'm always a big believer in self-releasing, and that the community is very intelligent and aware, so I think this first offering is appealing to a very broad demographic. We would like to think that it is going to be successful, and we do intend to support it very heavily.
We have to be careful in terms of the expectations of the community. Whatever we start with, we have to expand upon week by week. I also want everyone to gain and enjoy the 45 tracks on the disc before considering downloading more. There'll definitely be extra songs available for DLC on day one, and then every week we'll be rolling more out.
GZ: Have you release any pricing for such content?
JK: Not yet, but what I can say is that it'll be very in-line with everyone else. Obviously the music industry have certain standards and certain platforms would rather charge a set amount. We'll be sure to make it as competitively priced as possible.
GZ: Def Jam Rapstar is set to release amidst a very busy release schedule, including some heavy hitters, towards the end of the year. Do you worry that your title will be overshadowed by other titles at retail, or do you welcome such competition?
JK: I think the retail story definitely says that. It is now a more mature industry and I think whenever you release a title you're always going to go up against the big guys. I think that it a healthy amount of competition and gives us the necessary "fear" throughout the year to make sure that we are really doing a very good job. I do think sometimes good games can get lost, and marketing budgets are very important.
There's always going to be competition, but there are a number of those games that I want to buy myself and it is always very daunting. But I think we're going to get beaten up at whatever time that we go into the marketplace, and I do think Def Jam Rapstar is suitably different and it won't just sort of die after two weeks on the shelves. It can stay out there, and is a very strong offering for the amount that you're going to be paying for it.
GZ: In relation to this, marketing seems ever more important these days. Will you be working alongside Def Jam to roll out an advertising campaign ahead of launch?
JK: It is very important that we are involving them, talk a big game right? Within UK we're starting to unroll their campaign and it should be seen across Facebook and Twitter, and we certainly have our following alongside promotion through local artists for each region. I would like to think we're going to utilise those tools.
Now even with $10 million marketing budgets, you can get crowded out and not even just within the game space. Even the time of year in terms of events such as the World Cup or Olympics can have an effect. I think with Def Jam Rapstar, we've got a lot to do and it's our first game. We've been building our company so there are a lot of chinks to iron out in all of our operations and departments. I feel that word of mouth will be particularly relevant and strong for us, and it won't just die after a few weeks on the shelf.
PlayZine Issue 41
For our latest Def Jam Rapstar coverage, click here to download PlayZine Issue 41 for free.GZ: In recent years analysts have noticed a decline in consumer interest in the music genre. Do you feel that this due to the continual barrage of rehashed titles with new track lists, rather than developers focussing on creating new IP?
JK: There's been a heavy saturation, and I think it was last year where it did feel a little overwhelming. I was astounded to begin with at the appetite for these big plastic guitars. I mean say 5-10 years ago, if you mentioned the word 'peripheral' to retail, you were dead! I do think we're very good in our industry that as soon as a genre, or new type of entertainment appears, everyone jumps on it. However, it is quite easy for us to suddenly flood the marketplace with too many similar titles. Having said that, I do think that we're are genuinely offering a fresh take. For me it was always important to introduce the lyric recognition and battling, meaning that every time you step up to the mic it's always different.
GZ: Having played SingStar and Lips with friends, there were always times that you could get away with just humming the melody. The voice recognition implemented within DJR seems to have eliminated such methods, was this important for you?
JK: That was a real problem for us when we were looking at those games, and what we've implemented is exactly to address that. Playing Lips and SingStar, it felt like it was too easy in that regard and with Hip Hop it would've been criminal if we'd just done that because I think that yet again we would have put a sub-standard offering for the community and let them down again. Because of the importance of being a lyricist in Hip Hop, it was important to get that right. In terms of the gamer, there was no challenge there. So you can still get some points, which is partly due to the peripheral, but to really trigger the multiplier you must be saying the right words.
TRI did a really good job with the voice recognition software and like all the other games if I'm just tapping on the microphone to the beat, I'll get some points. If I'm just whistling, I'll get some points. But all the multipliers, and the really big points, are linked to our lyrics and so you've got to get those correct to succeed.
GZ: In regards to censorship, I noticed you're using the 'Clean' versions rather than those that are 'Explicit.' What was the reason for doing so?
JK: That was a very touchy subject for a lot of people. I was hoping that we would go with the mature versions. Especially by the time we had done the deal with Konami, it was clear that there was a very large audience that weren't quite 18 or 21 and therefore we thought it better that we made it accessible to everyone. Even though we're going with the Radio Edits, everyone who knows the mature lyrics know what to say at those points, but I guess it is better that we get it out to everyone. I think that further down the line, maybe there is opportunity to produce a "Mature SKU" but there are no plans yet.
GZ: Although a minority, some Hip Hop tracks are currently available to both SingStar and Lips fans. Will you be including the same tracks within your DLC support, or is it important for you to differentiate your track list from competitors?
We obviously want to differentiate ourselves, and I think we are in the fortunate situation where Hip Hop has been largely left alone so we can provide the bulk offering. Some songs have been in a lot of games, but they're still great. Just because it's been in others we wouldn't exclude it, but at the same time we don't want to offer a lot of the same so there's a fine balance. We see ourselves as mutually beneficial to SingStar, in terms of the genres they cover and the ones that we do. There's compatibility between the hardware and peripherals, we love it at as a product and we should see it more as co-operation rather than competition.
GZ: I was particularly impressed by the Community features that you have implemented to support the title, what was the thought behind their design and inclusion?
JK: What we're doing with the Community stuff, and one of the reasons I was doing that, is because we're very excited by the future of the 'Freemium,' games based on servers and on-going support. As we are very interested in virtual worlds, we've gone and really looked at what has been happening in the MMO space, in the free-to-play models coming from North Korea and a lot of web-based companies because there are so many disciplines that we don't have in the traditional console structure. We have to pay attention to that because it is the future for us, and we have worked really hard. It's kind of terrifying as there is a lot involved with servers, and it's like "Oh my God! Day one they all crash," and we're like "Ahhhhh!" It was the idea of really understanding what having a community means, and everyone valuing what they're coming to see.
GZ: You're also set to utilise support through social network sites such as MySpace, Facebook and Twitter alongside this. How will this work?
JK: All of your existing social networks will be compatible, and you can get alerts on your handhelds with notifications. Once we go live with this, the idea of being a Promoter and having to make some picks on certain videos and the idea of setting it up so that you can prove that you are ahead of everyone else and making the right choices.
So then, as a Performer, I actually do want you to promote me and we have a lot of data visualisation tools that allow you to see how well you've done. Whether you've been doing really well and suddenly fallen off or not. So there's everything from just being a Fan, to being a Performer or Promoter. If we're going to go to all this effort to create this community, we wanted it to be a metagame experience once you're within it.
Also, for someone who hasn't bought the game who just wants to be involved, anyone can come and see what's going on. Going back to SingStar we felt it was great what they were doing but it was happening in a bubble. If you weren't playing, you didn't know it existed.
GZ: Will all of your statistics carry across to future Def Jam titles?
In the game itself is the Def Jam Empire, and then we've built all this community stuff and very soon we'll start talking about our next franchise which will be providing more detail on a certain aspect of that Empire.
The idea of posting videos, challenges, your best moves and a lot of that we'll be able to carry over. On a wider level for 4mm, all the stuff we're building here is directly applicable to how we're going to approach our community. Obviously with Rapstar we're going to feed it with a lot of DLC content, even more graphics and elements to gameplay, and then specific stuff to do with the metagame on the community.
The trick is that we don't have to keep throwing that stuff away, but on a planning stage it makes it a lot harder as we have to think 5-10 years after and beyond Def Jam Rapstar. To be honest, I like what Pan said. "A violently executed plan carried out today is better than the perfect plan next week," but we do try to think about it.
GZ: Having seen how well implemented your browser-based community features are, it is surprising to me that Sony aren't offering anything similar with SingStar.
JK: They were quite pioneering considering how long ago they brought the game out, and still there are so many fledgling elements to the wider industry of virtual worlds, the communities and online. Now we've got casual gaming and social gaming, everything is changing so quickly. I think it is very easy coming from a console world to not even think about those things, and we've taken the approach of over-doing it as long-term we do have a lot of interest in those areas and very quickly it'll become the norm.
GZ: There certainly seems to be a surge of popularity in browser based games, with social media sites such as Facebook lending themselves to this.
JK: These are the winds of change, and our industry is being shook at the foundations. I don't think half of us realise it, but everything is changing really quickly and we need to get on top of that or else we're dinosaurs.
GZ: Thanks for your time Jamie!
Def Jam Rapstar is due to release within North America in October, with a European release in November, for Xbox 360, PlayStation 3 and Wii.
Def Jam Rapstar coverage available in PlayZine Issue 41 - click here to download it for free!
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